SLO Tango -- rotating & all that jazz

Tue Aug 7 00:49:16 EDT 2007

Hi Glenna,

The trouble with generalizations is there is always an exception. If two
guys are comfortable enough to dance with each other and can gleam
additional useful information doing this in a public forum then by all
means. It is entirely a different agenda saying that every man should feel
comfortable with this. Men are not the only ones who are uncomfortable with
this. Some women also have a lot of trouble with dancing with other women.
And before you say the numbers aren’t equal let me say – I know! I’m just
saying it isn’t right to force this on anyone who is uncomfortable with it.
This whole matter only becomes another argument in favor of allowing people
who do not want to rotate. It is good we have a place where we can expand
our horizons learning a great dance and share our time with fun, like-minded
people. Sometimes dancers become like gunfighters and they start to think
they are all of that. Then someone comes along who shoots a little better
and knocks you off your pedestal. In the interest of maximizing the fun for
everyone around you it reduces to this: It is better to be humble and to be
esteemed by your peers than to be proud and be humbled. It is certainly a
lot more fun for everyone around you. That’s the only point I’ve wanted to
make. Of course it would be nice if everyone who came to the group classes
had a partner. I hate standing out. Then it wouldn’t matter if a couple
didn’t want to rotate. That’s their business. So speaking as one of those
single attendees; I’m also casting my vote in favor of couples only classes
- as long as the couples don’t have to be married or even significant –
‘because I’m not married and there isn’t a significant. But I love to dance
and I’m pretty sure I have friends I can make a couple out of. 

I want to apologize if my comments have not been constructive. We should
keep this realistic and positive and use this forum to share ideas that
bring about more opportunities for dance. 

-Mack 

  _____  

From: Glenna Thompson [mailto:glennat at charter.net] 
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 10:43 AM
To: myrealm at earthlink.net
Cc: sloTango at slotango.org
Subject: Re: SLO Tango -- rotating & all that jazz

Yes, Mack, I have seen a few macho guys in close embrace, but only in
Argentine Tango!  (Since this is not the only thing most men need to
practice, it wouldn't have to be the first same-gender exercise)  Perhaps
these particular men were secure enough to do this in public because they
were really good dancers.  Why?  Perhaps because they weren't afraid to
dance with men in order to learn what its like to be led by them.  Really
good leaders are quite rare, and I'm convinced its because so many men are
thinking about their own steps rather focusing on the pairing and leading.
One dance with another guy would bring this point home in a way that talking
for years could never do.   And, several?  Well, we women would soon notice
an increase in skill level and we'd be ecstatic.  

As for distractions, I think that may relate to the reason for being in
class.  If its a social occasion, then the dance and learning will not be
the focus and distractions will abound.  Chatting about shopping and TV
shows, clothes, who's dancing with whom, etc., If its a serious class where
people are really into the dance and maintaining a connection with their
partner, who'd ever notice what anyone else is doing?  

Mack Real III wrote: 

Glenna makes an important point. Is the problem really about rotating or is
it about standing out without a partner. I think it is not fair that the
person who coordinated to come with a partner should have to stand out. That
having been said, in fifteen of group lessons I have come to accept that
this is the nature of the beast. At six dollars a lesson this hardly seems
worth fussing over. It I just luck of the draw. However some of us have a
larger investment when we take these classes. For me I have to add another
twenty to thirty dollars in the cost of gas to drive my pickup up from Santa
Maria and back with an additional investment of an hour and a half total
travel time. This is hardly everybody else's problem. Add to that; I have
taken classes in some venues where some of the guys took advantage of the
rotation and never stood out. This is obviously even more frustrating. The
women in our group have never experienced this have they - that's my sarcasm
of course. We've all watched this happen even in our group. The obvious
answer to this is to not rotating. I don't know how it is for the follower
but it is very easy as the leader to get behind in a class if the rotation
doesn't switch often enough for everybody to try the move. I have often
wondered why these classes aren't set up as couples only. It seems like a
fairly simple thing to create a call list where the people who don't have a
partner could make it known that they are looking for a partner - before
they go to all of the trouble to come to the class. There must be some good
web developers in this group who could make a web page to manage this on a
night by night basis. 

As far as guys dancing with guys, Glenna, in the social environment of our
community I don't see this happening as a rule - especially in Argentine
Tango. Can you see two macho guys in close embrace? That's not going to
happen. At the least it is far to distracting from the lesson - not only for
the guy's doing it but for the rest of the class as well. Women on the other
hand... O.K. speaking as a guy, watching two women in close embrace is
pretty distracting as well. Fortunately I have danced enough group lessons
to be the intended benefactor of this a time or two - but I digress... I
love those group lessons! 

-Mack

Mack Real III
2489 Country Lane
Santa Maria, CA 93455-1636

Home Phone: 805.938.0790
Mobile Phone: 805.720.1862

myrealm at earthlink.net

-----Original Message-----
From: slotango-bounces at slotango.org [mailto:slotango-bounces at slotango.org]
On Behalf Of Glenna Thompson
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 1:16 PM
To: sloTango at slotango.org
Subject: Re: SLO Tango -- rotating & all that jazz

OK, well now I am going to add another 1/100 of a cent.  I responded 
carelessly to an earlier post as one of those hysterical 
how-dare-you-not-rotate-people.  I realize from reading subsequent posts 
that the subject was COUPLES ONLY classes.  Never having been able to 
participate in those classes, I managed not to notice that essential 
part of the discussion.  Although I've never had a class partner, I have 
spent many hours practicing with a single partner in a focused way, and 
thus agree that there is immense value to being able to stick with one 
thing and one person for as long as it takes.  So, please forgive my 
mistake -- I'd like to be on record as another voice on the side I 
seemed to be opposing before.  However, I still wonder if its 
appropriate to use class time for that. 

As far as sophistication not being part of tango!  You can't be 
serious!  Isn't is just so so much more fun to dance with someone who 
has taken the time to develop depth and really understand what they (and 
you) are doing?? 

Finally, one more comment about Jeff's original message -- same sex 
rotation.  If only there were more opportunities for this.  Not only 
should people learning dance be comfortable touching anyone, learning 
how it feels to be handled in both good and bad ways is invaluable.  So, 
I say: Get over it guys.  Please!  Dance with each other!  However, 
using judgment about when that is appropriate is a good idea.  I've been 
in a dance situation where there were 10 or 15 women standing around 
waiting all night to dance, and three men to go around.  Frustrating for 
the women, of course, and way too much pressure for the men. So, what 
did they do to relive that?  Two of them danced together for half an 
hour or so, and what could the remaining guy to but give up.  Most of 
the women just got mad and left.  Of course, that sort of thing would 
never happen here, and I do mean that.  Because we have a Precious Tango 
Bubble.

Throughout our lives we experience times and places and people and 
combinations of the three that we know are unique and valuable and we 
know we must hold on to them and treasure them and even when those times 
are past we'll still have the feeling we got from them.   This little 
San Luis Obispo dance community is one of those, and these messages are 
a testament to that. 

DB wrote:

Bravo Willow!! Well said! 

Tangamente,
Debbie 

-----Original Message-----
From: slotango-bounces at slotango.org [mailto:slotango-bounces at slotango.org]
On Behalf Of Willow RunningHawk
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 8:41 AM
To: slotango at slotango.org
Subject: SLO Tango -- rotating & all that jazz

Queridos compañeros/compañeras:
Laura asked me to put in my $.02, so here goes:
I liked Jeff's email (copied below for those of you who haven't seen
it) it's a nice list of good sense vis-a-vis tango.

Some people get so worked up about the classes and to rotate or not to
rotate, it makes me think that they're just letting off steam that is being
generated elsewhere.  I think our tango community is fabulous! Let people

do

what they like, if they want to be exclusive, well, that's their

perogative,

who cares?  (Apparently this does bother some people quite a lot... but you
can't please everyone no matter how hard you try.)  Most of our more
experienced dancers DO make an effort to dance with the less experienced

and

less familiar partners, and I love you all for that!

There has been talk of a tango town meeting, but that makes me quite
uncomfortable.  Meetings are for work-related stuff, please!!  l don't want
the outside world to contaminate my precious tango bubble.  Tango is what I
do to escape from all that! I say we stay focused on what we love about
tango... the dance, the music, the atmosphere, the warmth of our tango
community... I love you all!

besos, Willow

**Hi all,

This is Jeff from the Salsa world and  I wanted to share my opinions about
rotating.  I believe that in any group lesson, except those involving
dangerous lifts and tricks, rotating should be strongly strongly

encouraged.

I'd go one step further by arguing that advanced Tango dancers should

rotate

with the same sex, so that they learn the follow and lead.  Tango

originated

this way, did it not?

Here's why rotation should be obligitory:

1. It's more inclusive.  All those single dancers out there will want to
take the class that let's them participate, obviously.

2. You'll learn how to dance with many types of leads/follows.  Do you
really want to be a great dancer with your parter but no one else?

3. Work out bad habits more quickly.  If you learn with only one partner,
he/she may not be able to catch everything you are doing wrong.

4. Stronger bond between participants.  You will make your Tango community
stronger by rotating.  It sounds cheesy but it's true.

5. Better way to gage the different levels of dancing.  You'll have a

better

understanding of what makes a good dancer and what makes a bad dancer by
learning with the good and the bad.

6. Chance to take a mini-vacation from partner.  Do you really want to

dance

the whole time with your partner, anyway?

So that's about it.  It's an interesting debate but I think rotation wins
hands down.  Good luck and I hope you figure out what is best for you and
your Tango community.  -Jeff.**

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